DONE: The Completed Reiter Trails Map

[lupinsea]

.


The Reiter Trails Map is finished. Done. Finito!


http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.cv/jgreening/Sites/.Pictures/Reiter%20Trails%20Map%20Front%20copy.jpg-thumb_269_202.jpg
see below for larger images


The Map
The map itself is a 2 page, high-resolution 300 dpi PDF file designed for 11" x 17" paper. It is 5.2 MB so it's not super small but it's a compressed PDF (which is smaller than it's 40 MB uncompressed size). I've done several test prints to optimize the color and resolution and balance them against the file size. Yet despite this size I couldn't upload it as an attachment in this thread. So, until some one contacts me to upload the file to Reitertrailwatch.org some other way it is available on my website. Just follow the link:

Click Here to Get Reiter Trails Map. (http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/FileSharing5.html)
(Look in "Map" folder)

Because of the physical size (11x17) it may be necessary for some to take the file down to Kinkos, Office Depot or other print place where they have larger format printers. Most of these places can also laminate the map for about $1-2. A hassle but worth it for the map.

Alternatively, you can also "scale to print media" or "scale to paper" and print the map on 8.5" x 11" paper, though it'll be more difficult to read. But it's possible.


Map Contents and Features
The map contains several features. In addition to the information content it is designed so that if folded into 4 segment (accordian like) the map title will be visible. The 11x17 size is large enough to clearly show Reiter Trails but not too large as to be difficult to handle in a rig. The main map of the area is on the front with additional information on the back to maintain clarity of the map. Specifics:

Front of Map

The base topographic map image w/ contour shading
4x4 trails, gravel roads, and paved roads indicated and GPS mapped
An enlarged portion of the lower Powerline Trail for clarity
4x4 trails are numbered which correspond to index on back of map
Icons and a legend denoting points of interest (parking, camping, etc.)
Scale
North arrow


Back of Map

Trail index listing trail name, number, length and difficulty (approx.)
GPS waypoint coordinates for the main staging area, upper sign and Index overlook
3D Terrain Model of the Reiter Trails area
Reiter Trails overview description (describing the trail network)
Directions to Reiter Trails
Trail Narratives describing the main trails (Lk Isabel, Index, Powerline, Rock Garden, etc.)
An elevation profile for the Lk Isabel trail (graph)
Some photos of different areas around Reiter Trails




Map Pages
Here are images of the front and back of the map. These are significantly lower-resolution images intended for web viewing only. Download the PDF for a 5X higher resolution map.



http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.Pictures/Reiter%20Trails%20Map%20Front%20copy.jpg

Front of Map








http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.Pictures/Reiter%20Trails%20Map%20Back%20copy.jpg

Back of Map








.

[spidertoy]

BEAUTIFUL WORK!!! that is amazing, thank you so VERY MUCH for all of your hard work and time

[Kat JK]

WOW JASON,
That looks totally awsome.
Kat

[jobless]

The map is very cool :cool:

But the Difficulty ratings lead me to believe that, for the most part, that the trail wasn't run...just the bypasses and in some cases not the real trail at all.

For example,

The Wall Trail is a beginer trail, it may be one notch above the Power Lines

Sac Up (w/o using go-arounds) is much more difficult as is Cable Trail.

I find this info very misleading and inaccurate.

[lupinsea]

I've run all the trails in my Jeep except the western portion of Rhinoland (a truck was blocking my way) . . . and I walked that part of Rhinoland (I've driven from the mid-point to the Rock Garden. My Jeep* is not stock but it's also not some intensely modded rock buggy. I figure it's a good medium build, middle of the road Jeep and one that works well as a good metric for the trails.

Cable trail didn't seem like a big deal, but then, I was heading downhill.

Index Wall seems more challenging to me when taking the entire trail into consideration. Whether it's the deep water route to the left at the Y or trying to pick your way through all the stumps, puddles and logs if you go right (straight) at the Y on whole Index seems more challenging than Cable Trail. Especially if you add in the last 200-300 ft up to the steel barricade on Index where people can drive over some rocks..

And Sac Up? If you stick to the main route it also doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. More challenging than Cable Trail for sure. Which is why it was listed as "more difficult" while Cable Trail was "easy".

The map is certainly for those who know the area and want some guide. But it's also going to be for a broader audience of people who may not be familiar with Reiter Trails. It's why some trail narratives are on there as well as the difficulty ratings in the trail index. In that regard I feel the trail ratings are a fair assesment of the trails. Of course, conditions may change over time. Who knows, maybe on version 2 (with the motorbike trails) Cable will have changed by then.









* For reference, I'm running a 2" suspension lift, 1" BL, dual LSDs and 32x11.50 MT tires on my TJ Wrangler. It's gotten me through most things at Reiter. The Rock Garden was my big problem area (no surprise). Never really had much of an issue anywhere else apart from bumps and scraps.

[spidertoy]

well perhaps if we ALL could show up and agree to a "general" difficulty on the trails before this hits publishing, then we all can be happy with the results;)

[jobless]

Cable trail didn't seem like a big deal, but then, I was heading downhill.

Index Wall seems more challenging to me when taking the entire trail into consideration. Whether it's the deep water route to the left at the Y or trying to pick your way through all the stumps, puddles and logs if you go right (straight) at the Y on whole Index seems more challenging than Cable Trail. Especially if you add in the last 200-300 ft up to the steel barricade on Index where people can drive over some rocks..

And Sac Up? If you stick to the main route it also doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. More challenging than Cable Trail for sure. Which is why it was listed as "more difficult" while Cable Trail was "easy".

The map is certainly for those who know the area and want some guide. But it's also going to be for a broader audience of people who may not be familiar with Reiter Trails. It's why some trail narratives are on there as well as the difficulty ratings in the trail index. In that regard I feel the trail ratings are a fair assesment of the trails. Of course, conditions may change over time. Who knows, maybe on version 2 (with the motorbike trails) Cable will have changed by then.

* For reference, I'm running a 2" suspension lift, 1" BL, dual LSDs and 32x11.50 MT tires on my TJ Wrangler. It's gotten me through most things at Reiter. The Rock Garden was my big problem area (no surprise). Never really had much of an issue anywhere else apart from bumps and scraps.

Running Cable Trail "downhill" wouldn't pose a challenge to anyone unless they were blind. It was built going uphill, as that is were the challenge is.

As for Sac Up, if your running 32" tires I guarantee you were not running the trail with the obsatcles as it was intended, but instead the go-arounds. This one was also built going uphill.

I offered months ago to show you every trail up there and all it would have taken was half a day. Like Don said, when we all get together, maybe the next RTW meeting, we can discuss.

[lupinsea]

The map won't be changing substantially for 1.5 - 2 months. As I mentioned in the other thread I'll be starting a remodeling project that will be sucking up all my spare time after work. The map pretty much is as it is until mid-to-late March / early April.

I'll grant you Cable Trail might be more challenging on an up-hill run. But I've run Sac Up several times in both up and down directions. Actually, I've run it down hill only once, come to think of it. And I've stuck to the proscribed route (based on what's open vs. what's blocked). It's a good trail but I still wouldn't give anything other than a "more difficult" designation.

The way I was figuring the trail difficulty scale is more like a bell curve:

Easy: Seems obvious. Stock rigs should not have a problem on these trails. And as for Reiter most of these are the old deteriorating roadgrade trails or the Powerline routes.

More Difficult: There's a wide range of "more difficult" conditions / trails that fall into this category. Typical slightly modded rigs should not have too much of a problem but stockers would find difficulty. Custom built rigs and heavily modded 4x4 should not have any problem at all.

Most Difficult: Ideally the most difficult of trails. Even somewhat modded rigs would have problems here. Obviously, the Rock Garden falls into this category. I've included Lk Isabel Trail because of the section above the log bridge with all the boulders as well as a few points along the route (including the river crossing, though that's not too bad). The western half of Rhinoland looks very challenging and would fit this description. And the very western end of Freeride, where the 6 ft ledge is is a tricky place to get around. . . off camber, 6 ft drop, etc.


If you guys want to figure out the trail difficulty stuff, agree on something, and let me know I might be able to squeeze in a change on a lunch break or something. Otherwise I'm out of spare time as of afterwork today when demolition starts.

Figure something out on the trail rating, let me know, I'll see if I can change it.

[spidertoy]

sounds like a plan, and again thank you VERY much for your hard work, we will do our best to work around your schedule as far as getting trail ratings to you when its convenient for you

[Kat JK]

You can now get to SOL, the washout area in issabelle area has been fixed and is crossable.

[Binder]

But I've run Sac Up several times in both up and down directions. Actually, I've run it down hill only once, come to think of it. And I've stuck to the proscribed route (based on what's open vs. what's blocked). It's a good trail but I still wouldn't give anything other than a "more difficult" designation.


You really need to run that trail with someone who knows where the trail is. You were obviousely on the bypasses. Same goes for cable trail...

[CrustyJeep]

You can now get to SOL, the washout area in issabelle area has been fixed and is crossable.Psst, I think you mean TOD (Trail Of Doom). SOL is on BYS.

HTH :p

[Kat JK]

TOL BYS SOL its all the same............ giggles

[Rooinater]

why not look into the 5 point rating system that az and other states use. certain types of obstacles lead to a certain rating. grade, rocks and roots, shelf roads... if its a 4 rating overall but has an optional more difficult obstacle add a plus symbol. it makes alot more sense than cramming them all into easy, more diff, and difficult style ratings. which are always misleading as all hell. take naches for example, most all of the most difficult trails i have run in a stock sami but there are some i can't make easily.

[lupinsea]

Why not use the AZ system? Because we're in Washington. . .

I was trying to be consistent with the other trail systems that I've come across in this state at Evan's Creek and the manastash area, etc. Those places tend to go on an "easy, more difficult, most difficult" rating system (three levels of difficulty).

If all of WA state wants to switch to a different system, great. But I think it would offer less confusion if Reiter was to be consistent with the other ORV places in its home state.

Further, I think trail rating schemes need to be updated periodically since trail conditions can change over time as I'm sure everyone here knows. Reiter is probably the most actively changing trail system that I know of.

[CrustyJeep]

Why not use the AZ system? Because we're in Washington. . .Whatever rating system is used, it's pretty clear you rated at least a couple of those trails based on go rounds, not the proper lines. That will need to be remedied.

[KarlVP]

The DNR areas use the Ski system. (Green Circle, Blue Square, Black Diamond)

[Comet]

Great work Lupinsea, really awesome format and layout. I really dig it.
Yeah, I agree we need to come to some greater consensus on the ratings, but the hard work is done. We can wait until you have more time to update what ever we come up with for ratings. Hell, it will probably take us a month to do that anyway.

BTW, can you estimate how many hours total you put into this? Everything, from driving to the trails, to actually wheeling and of course making the maps. I will talk to Kim at the DNR, but I am pretty sure this would qualify for our committment to them for hours. PM me with the info. if you want
Thanks again!

[KarlVP]

Whatever rating system is used, it's pretty clear you rated at least a couple of those trails based on go rounds, not the proper lines. That will need to be remedied.

Which isn't a big deal, just needs a little education. :)

[Cascade_Crawler]

First off thank you for your hard work and sharing it with the public. It turned out really nice. But I feel we need to change the ratings, they are not accurate and may lead to unprepared rigs venturing down trails where they don't need to be. last thing we need is more bypasses

[lupinsea]

Great work Lupinsea, really awesome format and layout. I really dig it.
Yeah, I agree we need to come to some greater consensus on the ratings, but the hard work is done. We can wait until you have more time to update what ever we come up with for ratings. Hell, it will probably take us a month to do that anyway.

BTW, can you estimate how many hours total you put into this? Everything, from driving to the trails, to actually wheeling and of course making the maps. I will talk to Kim at the DNR, but I am pretty sure this would qualify for our committment to them for hours. PM me with the info. if you want
Thanks again!

Um. . . time wise, let's see:

5-6 GPS mapping runs of about 9 hrs each (if you include drive times) = ~50 hrs

Then there was the map prep time . . . probably 1-2 hrs after each run = 8 hrs

Then the final editing, print quality checking, etc. maybe another 20 hrs

Total time is 75-80 hrs or so.






Anyways, when everyone has settled on a rating system let me know. I'd like to fit it into the space on the trail index table as that would keep the amount of "fix it" work to a minimum. An easy, medium, most difficult would be cool (adjust to fit the actual trails). Or some color coded thing .. . . but if we do color coding then I need to find a space for the code key and that means more time / work tweaking the map.

[bigd9247]

Hey, I just wanted to post and say thank you for all your hard work on making the map. It looks amazing. I can't wait to get it printed out and laminated.

One question, do you expect to make any major changes to the map in the coming months? Obviously people have already said they want the difficulty changed, but anything besides that? I just want to know before I go get it printed and laminated.

Again, thank you for making the map and for making it available for free.

[Rooinater]

my understanding is that the trail difficulties might change, maybe a trail name and oulet mall will eventually get added. but unless you own a buggy, I wouldn't worry 7out outlet mall. overall there shouldn't be enough major changes to stop you from printing it if you want one. personally i'll just keep the pdf file on my phone, and access it that way.

[lupinsea]

Yeah, what he said.

The basic map won't be changing. It'd just be the trail difficulty ratings and maybe one or two really difficult routes.

If it were me it wouldn't stop me from getting it printed and laminated.

Let me know of the print quality. I tried to dial it in on our good printers here at the office. It may be different on a different printer.



I'm rapping up my remodel project and wouldn't mind getting back to Reiter again, soon.

[big_MARK]

The only creative criticism I have would be to make separate pages for each of the major "areas" at Reiter.

Page one the map as you have it

Page two The Parking lot and surrounding areas (Issabel, Rock Face, Stair step, Mud holes, "hobbit trail)

Page three Powerlines and surrounding trails (Sac up, Poop shoot, Rock Garden, Rhino land, Grumpys trail, sand trench, etc..)

Page four The area to the south of the sand trench, there are shitloads of moto-trails inthere, might be nice to have them on the map, there are also a couple of "jeep" trails there too.

Page five Upper trails (BYS, SOL, Wall trail, CLOSED AREA FORMERLY Tight Ass, Upper Tighty, etc.., )

The map you made is awesome and I'm sure took lots of time, it shows!
The only downside is the scale, there are so many little trails trying to jam them all in a large map like you've done makes it almost worthless. Especially if the map is so far zoomed out you have no way to orient yourself on the ground with it.
By make sectional maps you will get more detail, and make it easier to find the trail heads.

Of course none of the trails are clearly marked so until that gets done it's all kind of moot.

Nice looking map, the file is kinda huge but that can be easily fixed.

Mark

[jruz]

Note to self... print a copy of the map and bring it with you next time so you can figure out what trail all these yahoo's are referring too... :D