Bridges At Reiter Foothills.

[Alan]

Hi All:

There has been discussion as to how the DNR cannot allow motorized vehicles to cross through streams. creeks, etc. up at the Reiter Foothills area.

I came across this website today:

www.roscoebridge.com

Seems like a viable option, especially since the spans are already engineered, and easy to assembly on-site. Oh, there is just that "money issue" . . . :(

Regards,

Alan

[Nowires]

Boy they sure look nice. I would say get some more info on them and some rough numbers on prices.

[Boxboy]

The building part is the easiest part of the process it's the site engineering, permitting process, and the waiting for the 2 weeks a year we are allowed to work in the streams which is the real killer.

[mark]

The building part is the easiest part of the process it's the site engineering, permitting process, and the waiting for the 2 weeks a year we are allowed to work in the streams which is the real killer.
Hey Scott (and anyone else), here is a link to those pre-engineered bridge/culvert I was referring too. I;m sure the DNR knows about these, but you never know. Quick, easy and IIRC pretty cheap in comparison. Be good for lower areas with easy truck/excavator access.

http://uvauburn.com/catalog/bridge.asp

[Nowires]

That looks like a cool idea. On the field day I was talking to mark from DNR and he was saying that the bridges that they have been putting in are about $1,000.00 a foot
I have asked him for design plans for a 20 ft bridge

[mark]

In my pee-brain. The pre-fabed "3-sides bridge" would be great for many of the smaller stream crossings at Reiter.

Here's how I envision it: Say you have a 5' wide stream (typical of a "small" ditch type stream). You have a 10' long (and 10' wide) pre-fab bridge, lets go 3-4' tall to keep it small. You excavate 2-3 feet from the stream edge of each side, now you are NOT disturbing the natural stream bed or edge in ANY way. Excavate a foot or so down, just enough to set the legs of the 3-sides box in. Place box, now back-fill or concrete your excavation. Now you have a HUGE culvert over a stream and you haven't disturbed its banks in ANY way. Now a rock and/or earth ramp to get up on top of the bridge/box. Done in a day. No disturbing of the stream. Solid, engineered and easy. same thing could be done with the 20' x 5' versions for larger crossings. Moderate to big excavators can swing those things around all they want.

[Nowires]

In my pee-brain. The pre-fabed "3-sides bridge" would be great for many of the smaller stream crossings at Reiter.

Here's how I envision it: Say you have a 5' wide stream (typical of a "small" ditch type stream). You have a 10' long (and 10' wide) pre-fab bridge, lets go 3-4' tall to keep it small. You excavate 2-3 feet from the stream edge of each side, now you are NOT disturbing the natural stream bed or edge in ANY way. Excavate a foot or so down, just enough to set the legs of the 3-sides box in. Place box, now back-fill or concrete your excavation. Now you have a HUGE culvert over a stream and you haven't disturbed its banks in ANY way. Now a rock and/or earth ramp to get up on top of the bridge/box. Done in a day. No disturbing of the stream. Solid, engineered and easy. same thing could be done with the 20' x 5' versions for larger crossings. Moderate to big excavators can swing those things around all they want.

Sounds like a great concept. Would you like to keep running with it, Get some more info and basic cost of lets say a 10' / 20' bridge

[crash]

Try to get some facts Mark......

[zukkev]

Heck, might even be possible for a 'donation' for one if you talk to the right people, any one at the company that's into wheelin'???---:)

[Tod701]

Heck, might even be possible for a 'donation' for one if you talk to the right people, any one at the company that's into wheelin'???---:)

Offer to put a big thank you and the company name/logo on the side of the bridge. They'd also get mentioned in most of the local ORV publications.

[mark]

In my pee-brain. The pre-fabed "3-sides bridge" would be great for many of the smaller stream crossings at Reiter.

Here's how I envision it: Say you have a 5' wide stream (typical of a "small" ditch type stream). You have a 10' long (and 10' wide) pre-fab bridge, lets go 3-4' tall to keep it small. You excavate 2-3 feet from the stream edge of each side, now you are NOT disturbing the natural stream bed or edge in ANY way. Excavate a foot or so down, just enough to set the legs of the 3-sides box in. Place box, now back-fill or concrete your excavation. Now you have a HUGE culvert over a stream and you haven't disturbed its banks in ANY way. Now a rock and/or earth ramp to get up on top of the bridge/box. Done in a day. No disturbing of the stream. Solid, engineered and easy. same thing could be done with the 20' x 5' versions for larger crossings. Moderate to big excavators can swing those things around all they want.

Sounds like a great concept. Would you like to keep running with it, Get some more info and basic cost of lets say a 10' / 20' bridge

Try to get some facts Mark......


Rough budget numbers.

Based on a 10' wide structure (10' to 19' long), they run about $600 /lft, delivered to site. (maybe a little extra to Reiter and/or up some logging roads, but not that far off over-all price wise). They unload it from thier rig as well, and if convenient, will place it in the hole if its right there.

A 10' wide x 10' long x 3' high (to the bottom of the "bridge" structure, add 10" or so to the top) weights in the neighborhood of 26,000 lbs. and cost about $6,000 Not light, but could still be swung around by a 80Klbs excavator or a good boom truck/crane. Not cheap, but not bad considering some of the $20-$60K numbers that have been tossed around.

These have an H-20 load rating i.e Freeway loads. They *could* make them with a little lighter load rating, i.e. less rebar, but that would only shave minimal weight, the concrete amount and form sized is fixed.

~5-week or so lead, depending on how busy they are.

http://www.uvauburn.com/downloads/catalog/product_pdf/3%20SIDED%20BOXES.pdf

[4xrick]

are they all 10 ft wide? is it any cheaper for one maybe 8 feet wide? i cant think of any trails that have bridges 10 ft wide. 8 ft max at any other orv park.

[The Shocker]

How about 48" wide?

[4xrick]

How about 48" wide?

maybe for quad or single track trails but even your rig isnt going to fit across 48"

[The Shocker]

maybe for quad or single track trails but even your rig isnt going to fit across 48"


So I guess we can only talk about 4x4 bridges?
:rolleyes:

[crash]

Who really cares what the inteded use of the bridge is.

Correct me if I am wrong--the 4x4 bridges are by far the most expensive and hardest to build--where the single track bridges are cheaper and simpler..

A bridge is a bridge is a bridge...

[Nowires]

Wow I was thinking they were going to be more. I think that is a very fare price
I was with Jason from DNR this last weekend and we were talking about bridges and what he has saw in areas tha he has been in. Where all of the trails come together just for the crossing and then split after the bridge. This would keep the cost down if the trail designer would work on that theory
But then agian, If we need a bridge to cross something I am sure we can figure out a way to get it

How long can they build a bridge, Can they build a 40 ft one

[The Shocker]

Who really cares what the inteded use of the bridge is.

Correct me if I am wrong--the 4x4 bridges are by far the most expensive and hardest to build--where the single track bridges are cheaper and simpler..

A bridge is a bridge is a bridge...

Well the replacement bridge over Mission Creek at Tahuya cost over $100k. This was for a ATV/MC bridge. Doesn't exactly sound cheaper OR simpler.....

[crash]

Well the replacement bridge over Mission Creek at Tahuya cost over $100k. This was for a ATV/MC bridge. Doesn't exactly sound cheaper OR simpler.....


Thats crazy. I have never seen the bridge but I suspect you have. Imagion if it was built for a wheeler..

And one aspect of looking at 4x4 bridges--they can be used by anybody and if the trails are setup in such a way---we can save a bunch and get more bang for our buck if all users can use the same bridges.

So don't take it negativly neil as its not meant to be by any means...

[The Shocker]

Thats crazy. I have never seen the bridge but I suspect you have. Imagion if it was built for a wheeler..

And one aspect of looking at 4x4 bridges--they can be used by anybody and if the trails are setup in such a way---we can save a bunch and get more bang for our buck if all users can use the same bridges.

So don't take it negativly neil as its not meant to be by any means...


Indeed it is Crazy Stupid... I can only imagine what the requirements are for 4x4 bridges. I think we would have to be pretty creative to have one bridge to take care of all needs. Hopefully as Charlie mentioned, the planners will take this into consideration. It seems like the need for bridges would be higher for the ATV and Bike crowds. The 4x4 area at the Rock Garden wouldn't need one if they punch through the woods from Reiter Rd to the Powerlines like the DNR said during the Motorized Field Day. And to get to the upper radio tower area there wouldn't be a need for one. To get the mileage for the other users however will likely be a few bridges.

[Tod701]

Where all of the trails come together just for the crossing and then split after the bridge.

This is good thinking when its feasible.:)

Another option used in other areas is to route the trails to use a logging road bridge if one is reasonable close by.

[Binder]

How long can they build a bridge, Can they build a 40 ft one


Looks like 35'...
Mark did you ask about the optional precast footing? I think it would be a long shot to get a civil engineer to let you build a bridge out of these without a real cast in place footing but may be worth asking.
For some of you guys that may be non construction types these are precast concrete sections that come in different sizes which you can stack together to make different size bridges. 10'-0" wide could be up to 20'-0" long if bought in one piece. Longer than 20'-0" would be 5'-0" wide pieces stacked together.
FYI a "KIP" is 1000 lbs.:cool:

[crash]

Indeed it is Crazy Stupid... I can only imagine what the requirements are for 4x4 bridges. I think we would have to be pretty creative to have one bridge to take care of all needs. Hopefully as Charlie mentioned, the planners will take this into consideration. It seems like the need for bridges would be higher for the ATV and Bike crowds. The 4x4 area at the Rock Garden wouldn't need one if they punch through the woods from Reiter Rd to the Powerlines like they said. And to get to the upper radio tower area there wouldn't be a need for one. To get the mileage for the other users however will likely be a few bridges.

Kinda like Legos?

[crash]

Indeed it is Crazy Stupid... I can only imagine what the requirements are for 4x4 bridges. I think we would have to be pretty creative to have one bridge to take care of all needs. Hopefully as Charlie mentioned, the planners will take this into consideration. It seems like the need for bridges would be higher for the ATV and Bike crowds. The 4x4 area at the Rock Garden wouldn't need one if they punch through the woods from Reiter Rd to the Powerlines like they said. And to get to the upper radio tower area there wouldn't be a need for one. To get the mileage for the other users however will likely be a few bridges.

I agree--it may not be feasable but definately something to look at in the planning stage...

[Nowires]

Another option used in other areas is to route the trails to use a logging road bridge if one is reasonable close by.

I think the biggest problem is finding a place where the steeams are going to stay where they are without changing cource every year. Tha means that you eather build a bridge where the sttream is stable or go to a road to cross it. The most logical idea is to make one bridge serve as many as posible.
But then agian there are places where a bridge would open up a great area for the bikes only. But with the budget I think we need to look at ideas for the masses
We are all on the same team here and we all need to look at what is best for all users

[Nowires]

Looks like 35'...

That would work for what I saw the other day

[Tod701]

I think the biggest problem is finding a place where the steeams are going to stay where they are without changing cource every year. Tha means that you eather build a bridge where the sttream is stable or go to a road to cross it. The most logical idea is to make one bridge serve as many as posible.
But then agian there are places where a bridge would open up a great area for the bikes only. But with the budget I think we need to look at ideas for the masses
We are all on the same team here and we all need to look at what is best for all users

The reason I brought up using existing logging road bridges when practical is that they don't cost us a dime. Building ORV bridges would be better, but when cost is the driving issue, gotta look at cheap too.

[mark]

Looks like 35'...
Mark did you ask about the optional precast footing? I think it would be a long shot to get a civil engineer to let you build a bridge out of these without a real cast in place footing but may be worth asking.
For some of you guys that may be non construction types these are precast concrete sections that come in different sizes which you can stack together to make different size bridges. 10'-0" wide could be up to 20'-0" long if bought in one piece. Longer than 20'-0" would be 5'-0" wide pieces stacked together.
FYI a "KIP" is 1000 lbs.:cool:
No I didn't even notice the footings, good call. I would *hope* than since we aren't dealing with a HS-20 load (freeway traffic), we would be able to get away with simpler footing details, but you never know, engineers dent to get a "CYA" attitude with this stuff... I mean please, its a WHEELING bridge, not I-90. If people get serious I can always ask.


35' would cover the old "upper" May Creek crossing.... without even getting into the shoreline :D :redneck:


Custom sizes could *maybe* be done... but it sounds like the forms are pretty fixed for what they have shown in their chart. However, speculating here, one *might* be able to use the same engineering, for a lighter load, to make a lighter, smaller, more sectional (say 5' wide standard section) then create simple, limited run forms that could make them to the same engineered specs.

This could even be done much closer to the site, or even on-site to save trucking and costs. Set up a production plan, have the 'cret trucked up, pour, then move/haul to the bridge sit and lift into place. Sure it won't be "cheap", but cheaper than a 100K ATV bridge, especially if we have a dozen or so bridges to create.